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Evaluating Obama's Tenure (Page 9)

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*Woh Ajnabee*

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*Woh Ajnabee*

Joined: 15 September 2007

Posts: 22667

Posted: 10 February 2009 at 7:41pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Gauri_3



  • Did you evade any taxes in past few years?
  • Do you owe any back-taxes to the IRA?
  • Do you still have partially unpaid taxes that you just chose not to pay?
  • Did you oh so conveniently forget to declare some of the imputed income on your tax return?

If your answered NO to the above questions then you CAN NOT join his team.  The ones listed above are the ONLY GROUNDS Obama considers when picking his teamWinkTongue

Welcome back, NupsHug


Yes, that's why no one is asking you to join Obama's team. You would do much much better getting on board with Blagojevich, helping him sell Obama's seat in the Senate, and then say "I would never have said that if I knew I was being listened in on" WinkLOL



Edited by *Woh Ajnabee* - 10 February 2009 at 7:41pm

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return_to_hades

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return_to_hades

Joined: 18 January 2006

Posts: 20652

Posted: 10 February 2009 at 7:58pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by chal_phek_mat

When you are in financial trouble, you tighten up your spending, ensure you are not buying the 60 inch flat screen, the Lexus till you get out of the tough times. Look around millions of people successfully apply this approach and get themselves out of trouble. I have seen fortune 100 companies take this approach in the last few months, that is causing more and more job losses than the actual company going down like a Satyam. All the companies that failed in the last year is b'cos the market would not cover their risks, there was no Enron in this
 
What Obama and Bush before him are doing is exactly the opposite, oh let me spend, spend so money will flow through the economy and perhaps it will fix it. How about you just fix where the problem is, i.e the Credit market? If GM can borrow money on the open market, they wont lay off those thousands of workers. Not sure how much you see of the market situation  But more jobs are lost this way than the actual subprime market issue

I believe there is a complete world of difference between a private entity and a government. A private business is there to be profitable. The bottom line is the key. A business will do what it takes to succeed and meet the bottom lines. A successful business is one that grows and trims with changing times, and knows where and when to buy, make and sell. The bottomline for the government is not profit, it is the welfare of citizens. In ideal circumstances the free market sustains itself. Unemployment and turnover find their level. We are in an economic times when the free market has crashed. Part of it was lack of governmental responsibility and oversight, part of it was operational mismanagement and greed. The layoffs and cut backs happening now are not part of a normal free market but the chain reaction from the crash. In this instance the government ought to step in to sustain the economy.

I personally think it is time GM crashed. This is not the first time American car manufactures have cried for help. GM very much had access to open market credit for years. GM is a slow lumbering giant that is beyond economies of scale. It is unsustainable. It is the ship that drove into the iceberg despite warnings, now let it sink. GM should have been split like Ma Bell ages ago. The layoffs and economic losses will have significant impact. A local GM plant closing recently left significant chunks of damage, but the community is slowly absorbing it. In my opinion if GM can sustain itself it has to do it on its own.
 
 
Originally posted by return_to_hades


For the spend spend spend. Do not worry the money is not coming from the 'treasury'. It is coming from the 'reserve'. It is not your money. It is the 'reserves' money.
 
Are you kiddin me????
 
They are printing the money like it is going out of fashion with no guarantee against it. The value of the dollar is going down, Now the Chinese Yuan is costing you more, so you cost of import has gone up, That coupled with the manufacturing shutdowns the Chinese are laughing their way to the bank. To keep the COGS to go up, they are loaning the US more money, so the US is more in debt day by day. This is YOUR money, That is YOUR reserve,  sometime in the near future the Chinese would like to collect.
 
The reason the gold standard was abandoned for fiat currency is for this very reason. The government has the ability to value or devalue its currency based on need. The US Treasury is our money. It is our taxes and funding. The teasury is the income of the government. The Federal Reserve is a separate banking entity. It is the lender of last resort and the means to control cash flow in the market. The reserves money can exist or cease to exist as the reserve will dictate. It is not mine, yours, ours, nor the governments really. Taxpayers dictate how the treasury spends, economic need dictates how the reserve controls cash flow. This is exactly why the reserve is set up separately so it can function independently.

The Chinese loaning US money is the exact reason why we need the federal reserve to circulate currency. To prevent debt to China. That is also why our government has to spend. So that China and other opportunist economies do not spend and take control of our debt and economy. The reserve does not need a backing, the value of the currency is based on the face value the government assigns to it. A dollar flooding the market is not what China wants. Most importantly China cannot collect against the federal reserve.

 
Originally posted by return_to_hades


It will most likely result in devaluation of the dollar, but it will initiate circulation into the economy. Republicans also would have spent money - just in a different way.
It will circulate the money into the economy, but will lose its value after a very short span, A year or two ago Bush sent a check to every household, that boosted the economy for a few months and then at another bad turn it went into the tank

I thought the rebate checks were the worst idea in the history of bad ideas. Jos Schmo is an idiot. He gets money he buys that console, no longterm thought. This is why the government has to dictate spending through block grants and programs. The tax break aspect is one thing about Obama that disappointed me a lot. Taxation is a way of governmental income and in times like these certain people need someone to hold their hand on how to manage their money. I was hoping that Obama would break the cycle of useless tax cuts. A politician who promises tax breaks is the CEO who declares dividends before there is any profit registered. ( I know you want to bring up govt vs private entity against me now) I dont trust either. In this aspect Obama really let me down. Although I am glad his tax breaks focus more on income groups who could do with it.

Devaluation has significant risks  - Its a question of sustainable economy vs dependent economy. Great Britain learned it the hard way when they abandoned the gold standard. In the long term they managed to sustain themselves. USA is a dependent economy, we will have
to learn sustainment.
 
Look everyone does this, doesnt mean it is right, If you say the other guy was wrong in creating a 1 trillion dollar deficit, that means you wont do it too. If you do it, You are a bigger scam artist the the other guy

Not all spending is the same for the same reason. If one sibling blew ten grand in vegas gambling and have dad a heart attack, the other sibling has to step in and lose another ten grand for the treatment. Spending for personal benefit and spending for greater benefit are two different things.

Originally posted by return_to_hades


Now I do not 100% agree with the bill. There are aspects that are not needed, there is a lot I do not like. I disagree with welfare increases, medicaid increases as well as the expenditure on the analog to digital switch. However, 80% of the bill makes sense. We cannot really predict outcomes, the best thing we can do is take a chance and let what we know will work fix it.

I dont agree with about 90% of this bill at this given time. The only thing I like in it is the increase in credit for homebuyer, that's gonna give people the incentive to buy.

It is an aspect of economics. It is not a perfect science. We all have different ideas on what works and does not. The truth is we all have a 50% chance of being right or wrong. We have to just wait and watch. If Obama fails - you will tell us we told you so. If he succeeds - we will tell you we told you so. It would have been the same with any other President.

Ultimately the important thing is we all want to revive the economy and hopefully it does.

return_to_hades

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return_to_hades

Joined: 18 January 2006

Posts: 20652

Posted: 10 February 2009 at 8:44pm | IP Logged
First of all Raj, thanks for sharing.I was reading this article at work today. I always check yahoo news. Yahoo news always features fact checks, myth or truth on politicians and political agenda, which is highly informative. However, there are somethings to note.

Originally posted by raj5000


OBAMA: "Not a single pet project," he told the news conference. "Not a single earmark."

Yeah whenever a politician says that, he is not telling the truth. Mr. Obama did not lie, but yeah he was not truthful either. George Bush was more honest in that sense, he would use his own dictionary and say something like 'No nosemark'. Of course there is no nosemark and thats the plain truth.

THE FACTS: There are no "earmarks," as they are usually defined, inserted by lawmakers in the bill. Still, some of the projects bear the prime characteristics of pork ' tailored to benefit specific interests or to have thinly disguised links to local projects.

For example, the latest version contains $2 billion for a clean-coal power plant with specifications matching one in Mattoon, Ill. tree hugger likies., $10 million for urban canals,you dont think of it much, but stormwater management is important.  $2 billion for manufacturing advanced batteries for hybrid cars tree hugger likies, and $255 million for a polar icebreaker and other "priority procurements" by the Coast Guard. Hey Palin needs to takea ship out even during the frigid winters to check on them Russians.

Obama told his Elkhart audience that Indiana will benefit from work on "roads like U.S. 31 here in Indiana that Hoosiers count on." He added, "And I know that a new overpass downtown would make a big difference for businesses and families right here in Elkhart."

U.S. 31 is a north-south highway serving South Bend, 15 miles from Elkhart in the northern part of the state.

Typically highways are a states responsibility to maintain. Some states do it through local taxes and some states do it through toll booths. Tolls are deterrent to business and increase transport costs, taxes punish citizens for highways they dont use. Federal funding to important transit/transport routes takes on the responsibility of interstate commerse. This is not your typical pork. But if you are someone in California, you wonder why should the feds spend on some highway for the hoosiers. 

Ultimately the fact is spending will always be relative. Something frivolous to you could be gold to the rest. This bill has several aspects which serve certain communities and groups only. There maybe broader purposes more than meets the eye.

___

OBAMA: "My bottom line is, are we creating 4 million jobs?" he told the news conference.

He said in Indiana, "The plan that we've put forward will save or create 3 million to 4 million jobs over the next two years."

THE FACTS: Job creation projections are uncertain even in stable times, and some of the economists relied on by Obama in making his forecast acknowledge a great deal of uncertainty in their numbers.

This is common sense. You cannot realistically predict economics. The reason this is inserted is not because Obama is misrepresenting facts. The problem is people misinterpret facts. Obama is citing the best case most optimistic scenario based on his teams economic assumptions. A person should be aware there could be starkly opposite dismal worst case scenario in another set of economic assumptions. This is a fact check for people who perceive Obama to be some sort of wizard who will wave a want and start millions of jobs dropping from trees.

The president's own economists, in a report prepared last month, stated, "It should be understood that that all of the estimates presented in this memo are subject to significant margins of error."

Beyond that, it's unlikely the nation will ever know how many jobs are saved as a result of the stimulus. While it's clear when jobs are abolished, there's no economic gauge that tracks job preservation.

___

OBAMA: "They'll be jobs building the wind turbines and solar panels and fuel-efficient cars that will lower our dependence on foreign oil and modernizing our costly health care system that will save us billions of dollars and countless lives."

THE FACTS: The economic stimulus bill would allocate about $20 billion to help hospitals and doctors transition from paper charts to electronic health records for their patients. Research has shown that in some instances, electronic record keeping can eliminate inappropriate services and improve care, but it's not a sure thing by any means. "By itself, the adoption of more health IT is generally not sufficient to produce significant cost savings," the Congressional Budget Office reported last year.

Again this is a fact check for those who misinterpret facts. During the boom time businesses would spend heavily on consultants who would design cost saving IT systems. Ideally the new system repays itself by significant savings. Sometimes the ROI takes too long and sometimes, it just does not succeed. With technology out there there is huge cost and time saving potential, but it will take time trial and error.

___

OBAMA: "I've appointed hundreds of people, all of whom are outstanding Americans who are doing a great job. There are a couple who had problems before they came into my administration, in terms of their taxes. ... I made a mistake. ... I don't want to send the signal that there are two sets of rules."

THE FACTS: Two of his appointees, former Senate Democratic leader Tom Daschle for health and human services secretary and Nancy Killefer as Obama's chief compliance officer, dropped out after reports they had not paid a portion of their taxes.

Obama previously acknowledged he "screwed up" in making it seem to Americans that there is one set of tax compliance rules for VIPs and another set for everyone else. Yet his choice for treasury secretary, Timothy Geithner, achieved the post despite having belatedly paid $34,000 to the IRS, an agency Geithner now oversees.

That could leave the perception that there is one set of rules for Geithner and another set for everyone else.

This was just a low blow to me. I agree with most aspects of this artice, but this one is just misreprentative. It does not really put facts in perspective. Timothy Geithner paid his taxes late. Tom Daschle still owed back taxes. Geithner's amount is a small error that any large income person could make in a year or few. Daschle's was continuous oversight. Finally backtaxes do not always automatically translate to intentional evasion. It was irrespobsible of Obama to miss background checking Daschle's IRS history knowing very well that the opposition is eager to dig dirt. But taxes apart Tom Daschle's history in health care reform made him an ideal candidate.

However, this dirt digging aint nowhere as low as the Demcrats fell when the opposed appointing Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court. Back then that was a really mean low blow by the dems.

___

OBAMA: "We also inherited the most profound economic emergency since the Great Depression."

THE FACTS: This could turn out to be the case. But as bad as the economic numbers are, the unemployment figures have not reached the levels of the early 1980s, let alone the 1930s ' yet. A total of 598,000 payroll jobs vanished in January ' the most in nearly 35 years ' and the unemployment rate jumped to 7.6 from 7.2 percent the month before. The most recent high was 7.8 percent in June 1992.

And the jobless rate was 10.8 percent in November and December 1982. Unemployment in the Great Depression ranged for several years from 25 percent to close to 30 percent.

Yeah I agree with this one. Too much economic fear factor. Americans are as it is addicted to running around like chickens with their head cut of. Its like Bush's be afraid of the terrorists has been replaced with be very afraid of the falling stock market. The stock may hit you in the head and you will die. But then there are some thick headed people who live in the illusion that nothing is wrong and everything is a conspiracy theory. Valentines day is a long drawn hoax by Hallmark.

return_to_hades

IF-Veteran Member

return_to_hades

Joined: 18 January 2006

Posts: 20652

Posted: 10 February 2009 at 8:48pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by Gauri_3

Originally posted by Nupur9

Ahhh A, I see you are back to our full time profession......TongueLOL
We should join his team just on the grounds of being his all time loyal supporters at this forum........
Vaise it's not all that easy ducking Gauri's darts....she is a veteran at that.....LOL
I say Bravo A........Smile


  • Did you evade any taxes in past few years?
  • Do you owe any back-taxes to the IRA?
  • Do you still have partially unpaid taxes that you just chose not to pay?
  • Did you oh so conveniently forget to declare some of the imputed income on your tax return?

If your answered NO to the above questions then you CAN NOT join his team.  The ones listed above are the ONLY GROUNDS Obama considers when picking his teamWinkTongue

Welcome back, NupsHug


I just noticed this. Are we expected to support the Irish Republican Army through taxes. Shocked Are we funding a secret mutiny to break down the United Kingdom. Shocked Oh my God, I have not been supporting any revolutionary armies. Shocked

But hey thats good, I do owe back taxes to the IRA. I never gave them any taxes. I answered yes to a question. I can join team Obama.Dancing

raj5000

Moderator

raj5000

Joined: 01 January 2006

Posts: 11720

Posted: 10 February 2009 at 10:19pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by return_to_hades

First of all Raj, thanks for sharing.I was reading this article at work today. I always check yahoo news. Yahoo news always features fact checks, myth or truth on politicians and political agenda, which is highly informative. However, there are somethings to note.
 
Most of the time, I too land up on yahoo's home and cann't resist reading whats going on...there are most of time late @ reporting...but no complains as long as I get to know about it first from themWinkLOL after hearing conservations radio/tv  ... reading in general yahoo is not that stale and somewhat a good resource..

Originally posted by raj5000


OBAMA: "Not a single pet project," he told the news conference. "Not a single earmark."

Yeah whenever a politician says that, he is not telling the truth. Mr. Obama did not lie, but yeah he was not truthful either. George Bush was more honest in that sense, he would use his own dictionary and say something like 'No nosemark'. Of course there is no nosemark and thats the plain truth.
 
LOLLOL @ nosemarks...    Obama not being truthfull well one can say all part and parcel but somehow there has been series of flip flops that has carved a dishonest image of his..in someWink minds...and then hearing "not being truth" thoughts by someone whose body language/pitch project...all truth and nothing else..is something which isOuch

THE FACTS: There are no "earmarks," as they are usually defined, inserted by lawmakers in the bill. Still, some of the projects bear the prime characteristics of pork ' tailored to benefit specific interests or to have thinly disguised links to local projects.

For example, the latest version contains $2 billion for a clean-coal power plant with specifications matching one in Mattoon, Ill. tree hugger likies., $10 million for urban canals,you dont think of it much, but stormwater management is important.  $2 billion for manufacturing advanced batteries for hybrid cars tree hugger likies, and $255 million for a polar icebreaker and other "priority procurements" by the Coast Guard. Hey Palin needs to takea ship out even during the frigid winters to check on them Russians.

@Palin needs a ship LOLLOLLOL ...I see the need but all this should have been part of PLAN B...which can come later(IF at all needed)..not part of stuimulus bill...kinna of loosing focus here...

Obama told his Elkhart audience that Indiana will benefit from work on "roads like U.S. 31 here in Indiana that Hoosiers count on." He added, "And I know that a new overpass downtown would make a big difference for businesses and families right here in Elkhart."

U.S. 31 is a north-south highway serving South Bend, 15 miles from Elkhart in the northern part of the state.

Typically highways are a states responsibility to maintain. Some states do it through local taxes and some states do it through toll booths. Tolls are deterrent to business and increase transport costs, taxes punish citizens for highways they dont use. Federal funding to important transit/transport routes takes on the responsibility of interstate commerse. This is not your typical pork. But if you are someone in California, you wonder why should the feds spend on some highway for the hoosiers. 

Ultimately the fact is spending will always be relative. Something frivolous to you could be gold to the rest. This bill has several aspects which serve certain communities and groups only. There maybe broader purposes more than meets the eye.

I am glad you acknowledged that it is indeed State's responsibility to maintain highways...OK i understand the need and aims towards broader purpose...again am not seeing the need of this being part of URGENT ECONOMIC recovery plan. Basically fed GOVT is giving favors,  and slowly making way into automous state's affair..NOT needed atleast now...after economy stables...dems can work on these broader purposes more than that meets the eye *COUGH Max Govt..less freedom *COUGHLOL

___

OBAMA: "My bottom line is, are we creating 4 million jobs?" he told the news conference.

He said in Indiana, "The plan that we've put forward will save or create 3 million to 4 million jobs over the next two years."

THE FACTS: Job creation projections are uncertain even in stable times, and some of the economists relied on by Obama in making his forecast acknowledge a great deal of uncertainty in their numbers.

This is common sense. You cannot realistically predict economics. The reason this is inserted is not because Obama is misrepresenting facts. The problem is people misinterpret facts. Obama is citing the best case most optimistic scenario based on his teams economic assumptions. A person should be aware there could be starkly opposite dismal worst case scenario in another set of economic assumptions. This is a fact check for people who perceive Obama to be some sort of wizard who will wave a want and start millions of jobs dropping from trees.

Hold on pls "The plan that we've put forward will save or create 3 million to 4 million jobs over the next two years." where do you see he is emphasizing on as mentioned fact check.... thats sounds like a remark of certainity and driving agenda to once again fool the general public.

The president's own economists, in a report prepared last month, stated, "It should be understood that that all of the estimates presented in this memo are subject to significant margins of error."

Beyond that, it's unlikely the nation will ever know how many jobs are saved as a result of the stimulus. While it's clear when jobs are abolished, there's no economic gauge that tracks job preservation.

___

OBAMA: "They'll be jobs building the wind turbines and solar panels and fuel-efficient cars that will lower our dependence on foreign oil and modernizing our costly health care system that will save us billions of dollars and countless lives."

THE FACTS: The economic stimulus bill would allocate about $20 billion to help hospitals and doctors transition from paper charts to electronic health records for their patients. Research has shown that in some instances, electronic record keeping can eliminate inappropriate services and improve care, but it's not a sure thing by any means. "By itself, the adoption of more health IT is generally not sufficient to produce significant cost savings," the Congressional Budget Office reported last year.

Again this is a fact check for those who misinterpret facts. During the boom time businesses would spend heavily on consultants who would design cost saving IT systems. Ideally the new system repays itself by significant savings. Sometimes the ROI takes too long and sometimes, it just does not succeed. With technology out there there is huge cost and time saving potential, but it will take time trial and error.

I understand the value of electronic health records, but cashing it out in name of creating jobs by having long term plan of easing the efforts to bring in Nationalized Health care worries me.

___

OBAMA: "I've appointed hundreds of people, all of whom are outstanding Americans who are doing a great job. There are a couple who had problems before they came into my administration, in terms of their taxes. ... I made a mistake. ... I don't want to send the signal that there are two sets of rules."

THE FACTS: Two of his appointees, former Senate Democratic leader Tom Daschle for health and human services secretary and Nancy Killefer as Obama's chief compliance officer, dropped out after reports they had not paid a portion of their taxes.

Obama previously acknowledged he "screwed up" in making it seem to Americans that there is one set of tax compliance rules for VIPs and another set for everyone else. Yet his choice for treasury secretary, Timothy Geithner, achieved the post despite having belatedly paid $34,000 to the IRS, an agency Geithner now oversees.

That could leave the perception that there is one set of rules for Geithner and another set for everyone else.

This was just a low blow to me. I agree with most aspects of this artice, but this one is just misreprentative. It does not really put facts in perspective. Timothy Geithner paid his taxes late. Tom Daschle still owed back taxes. Geithner's amount is a small error that any large income person could make in a year or few. Daschle's was continuous oversight. Finally backtaxes do not always automatically translate to intentional evasion. It was irrespobsible of Obama to miss background checking Daschle's IRS history knowing very well that the opposition is eager to dig dirt. But taxes apart Tom Daschle's history in health care reform made him an ideal candidate.

However, this dirt digging aint nowhere as low as the Demcrats fell when the opposed appointing Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court. Back then that was a really mean low blow by the dems.

I agree, this one I will give it in O's favor, he made the choice and standing by it, assuming he would take full responsibility BUT again after making such a decision he should NOT preach millions of Americans...that OUR KIDS should understand and know that there are NO SHORT cuts in lifeWinkWink

___

OBAMA: "We also inherited the most profound economic emergency since the Great Depression."

THE FACTS: This could turn out to be the case. But as bad as the economic numbers are, the unemployment figures have not reached the levels of the early 1980s, let alone the 1930s ' yet. A total of 598,000 payroll jobs vanished in January ' the most in nearly 35 years ' and the unemployment rate jumped to 7.6 from 7.2 percent the month before. The most recent high was 7.8 percent in June 1992.

And the jobless rate was 10.8 percent in November and December 1982. Unemployment in the Great Depression ranged for several years from 25 percent to close to 30 percent.

Yeah I agree with this one. Too much economic fear factor. Americans are as it is addicted to running around like chickens with their head cut of. Its like Bush's be afraid of the terrorists has been replaced with be very afraid of the falling stock market. The stock may hit you in the head and you will die. But then there are some thick headed people who live in the illusion that nothing is wrong and everything is a conspiracy theory. Valentines day is a long drawn hoax by Hallmark.

LOLLOLLOL Whatever it is just spell it out in moderation, minus the hot spice that might really spread panic ( for whatever reasonWink). Uncertainity of future is sure one of the important factor why Wall Street doesn't seems to recover and forget the thick heads..set them free at 5000000 feet in sky... in the name of free market / NO GOVT intervention during crisis / this, that and the other freedomLOLLOL
 

 
Edit - forgot to mention, great response... that article/share(ur welcome btw) didn't represented my exact views couldn't stop myself writing after reading ur comments... One more confession, I started off commenting on ur previous post (the long one) ... after typing for a while...checked... I was only 1/3 way thru...so gave upLOL, is that (long post) ur tactic  to keep away anti Obama viewsWinkLOL


Edited by raj5000 - 10 February 2009 at 10:34pm

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