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Renaming our cities-loosing international identity (Page 3) IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 04 August 2005
Posts: 18852

Posted: 14 December 2008 at 11:46pm | IP Logged
yes but not all the times, who changed banglore to bengluru, it just sounds so awkward

karandel_2008 IF-Rockerz

Joined: 09 December 2008
Posts: 5756

Posted: 15 December 2008 at 9:52am | IP Logged

My previous post was to put a check on the tendency, prevalent among us (overly modest Indians), to describe the British rule in an over-positive way.

I agree with "return_to_hades" that renaming of cities, every now and then, doesn't look to have much advantages except may be that it caters to misplaced ego.  In addition, it adds to chaos and, at worst, is used by politicians to garner votes. Nevertheless, I approve renaming only in exceptional cases.

There were some interesting things to read in the post of "return_to_hades".
Regarding French Fries, the name must have been given by British people. In past, due to not so friendly relations between British and French, the tendency was to call anything bad, or funny, as French. Not to mention that french fries in general are looked down upon as unhealthy, when we talk of traditional and sophisticated cuisine.

Belgium link could be because many people in Belgium speak french and even their road signs are in French (If I remember correctly).

In any case, the French fries are called as "Frites" (with 's' silent as per french language) in France and I doubt if French know its "correct" name in english because literally no one speaks english in France.

Edited by karandel_2008 - 15 December 2008 at 10:28am
raj5000 IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 01 January 2006
Posts: 11878

Posted: 15 December 2008 at 11:42am | IP Logged
@return_to_hades - Very well written and some great points raised in your posts, as always. Keep it up and thanks for sharing. ClapClap

@Karandel - Thanks for sharing, will check fallout (had it on my redar), right now battling it out in GOW 2 (insane mode LOL) and hey nice points raised in your posts, regarding the topic. Thumbs Up


chal_phek_mat Senior Member

Joined: 07 March 2008
Posts: 953

Posted: 16 December 2008 at 12:17am | IP Logged
Originally posted by return_to_hades

Being a history nerd, I probably could go to lengthy discussions and debates on kingdoms, independence, colonization and such....but I will focus on names.

I do not think by leaving the Anglicized names gives any undue credit to colonial rulers, at the same time nor does renaming them to Indianized versions take anything away from the history of a place.

Except for a few, most Indian names are Anglicized dimunitives.
Actually disagree with that , most Indian cities are named after some ancient god or famous person or some event. First the Mughal rulers "Arabified" the names and then the Brits/French/Portugese couldnt pronounce any of that, they screwed them up further
For example Bombay was Bombay to English, Bumbai in Hindi and Mumbai in Marathi. Forcing everyone to refer to it as Mumbai is like Spain demanding that we stop calling their country Spain and use Espana instead. The name change is nothing cultural but grounded in an absurd sense of ego. It is not that Europeans are not proud of their culture and history, there is a difference between that pride and misplaced ego.

Since we are talking about history, lets get that correctWink
Actually the name given in 1500's was "boa bahia "or "bom bahia",  depending on which source you use, that is Portugese and it means "good bay"Wink The Brits couldnt pronounce it, like a lot of things, so they started callng it Bombai.And the Brits left India in 1947, so isnt it High time we stop worrying about them?they arent coming backLOL

The natives called it as Mumbai that is basically named after Mumbadevi, and most Indians  like to think of their river/ocean/native place/goddesses as their mother(marathi it is "Aai")
so Mumba(devi) + Aai = Mumba - aai when spoken becomes Mumbai.
So the choice was to carry forward a screwed up portuguese name or go back to your roots. So with the inconvience to some  nostaligic people, if you can fix it, why not correct a mistake?
I know the habit thing and the nostalgia, my city was named one thing and they changed a letter in it. So even today I pay the price for it, every financial institute has a secret question, what is the name of your birthplace and I lock my account out by giving a wrong answer. Everytime I make a mistake in writing the name of my birthplace, since the name change occured After my education, so I had no opportunity of getting myself used to it.
My Nephew who was born After the name change has absolutely no problem with the name, he NEVER makes a mistake
The inconvenience is only for the generation that is used to the name. We as a nation are only 3 generations old. The new generation that comes up, gets the right name, the right history behind it. That is the job of the govt, to provide the right information.
Couple years ago, when I was in Mumbai, got into a cab and asked the Cabbie to take me to VT, The Sadarji made a point in correcting me with the right name is CSTWink.
This is a national  thing, not only a Mumbai/Maharashtra thing. There is a section in India, and a sizeable portion of the country, that thinks we as a nation are at a point where we need to  start to beleiving in ourselves, have started to drop the meekness that people extrapolated from our Gandhian days. This name change is just one of the many things that they are doing, Yes it also inculcates a sense of self pride, a sense of "your own" ancesteral connection. This sense of pride(when seen in others is called "Ego) in who you are, where you come from, is seen in a lot of places around the world, so I wont fault Indians for doing the same. For some it is a meaningless exercise, for some it is a building block
qwertyesque IF-Rockerz

Joined: 03 December 2006
Posts: 6568

Posted: 16 December 2008 at 10:17am | IP Logged
Originally posted by raj5000

I know old but this topic comes in various conversations, by renaming Bombay to Mumbai
1. has costed the city it's global identity? no... unless the indians feel they have lost a phirangi name and are ashamed of it's hindu translation
2. Was it the right step? may not be.. but nothing wrong about it
3. What is right to change (city / Airport / railway ) 's name given by (YOU know who? ) ? yes those gori chamdi's identity should be removed from our take off those shirt and pants and wear khaadi ka kurta and dhoti pl...LOL
One radio host while mentioning this Mumbai/Bombay name change said - "Indian administration is really very thin skin to rename Bombay or other India cities", was it really that or we wanted more adoptability or the name for people living in those cities? Radio host went on giving an example how US never considered changing Boston / New York, where these cities name hold so much heritage. Tongue
Any other thoughts on having a good Big smile debate / argueable discussion here.
BTW - Read this article for more details on Mumbai's name change 

Edited by qwertyesque - 16 December 2008 at 10:19am
return_to_hades IF-Sizzlerz

Joined: 18 January 2006
Posts: 24268

Posted: 16 December 2008 at 11:14pm | IP Logged
@CPM: I should have stated most names we are attempting to changed is an Anglicized dimunitive. Secondly the history of 'Bom Bahia' and 'Mumba Aai' does not change the fact that Bombay is an anglicized dimunitive. The etymology of the dimunitive 'Bombay' has been debated by historians as to whether it adapted from the Portguese or local dialect.

Aani kite mhanta mugo. Tu ek goankar ani ek mumbaikar ak shikheta ki bom mhanjee kite, ani amche gavache nav kaun dile. Bare as mu go tu, ki bom as mu go tu have mhanka zai.

I am not against name changing. I just think it is a ridiculous process and there are better ways to preserve history and culture. Oh well as long as I dont have to comply.

@karandel: I am not sure who named French fries. French discredit it as theirs, while Belgians claim it to be their creation. French fries are served with moules frites and that is a dish Belgian in origin (even though French restaurants usually carry it), So the Belgian link is plausible. When my sister was in France a few years ago she said that pomme frites referred to thick cut fries while frites Amerique was French fries in many of the places.

My personal gastronomic  theory is that french fries come from french cut fries like in french cut beans but the cut got lost in time.

Ah anyway while India changes their names away some people remain baffled. My poor grandma who was born and brought up in Udipi has had a hard time digesting and understanding why Bangalore is Bengaluru. She must be one of the old senile generation name changing people want to get rid off. Poor dear lady cannot even remember Bengaluru is the correct Kannada name. To think Kannada is her mother tongue.

I think I shall use the rest of my constructive life to get our state changed to Yesconsin. Maybe renaming Illinois to Illiniwek will be successful. There will be a distinctly Indian root to it. 

xantia Groupbie

Joined: 04 December 2008
Posts: 44

Posted: 17 December 2008 at 11:37am | IP Logged
As a hindu I feel it's important to know our history and to correct the wrongs that were done to our nation. If that means re naming places than that is a form of healing process for me.

karandel_2008 IF-Rockerz

Joined: 09 December 2008
Posts: 5756

Posted: 18 December 2008 at 1:03pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by return_to_hades

... pomme frites referred to thick cut fries while frites Amerique was French fries in many of the places.


Ok, I finally asked a french guy and he told me that there are two types of Frites.  Thicker ones are called just Frites and these are served in the restaurants (in France). In addition, there are some thinner ones that are served in McDonalds and are called Frites Amerique. There are also other varieties like you said: Pomme Frites etc(may be because they retain some shape of potato = pomme de terre).

Edited by karandel_2008 - 18 December 2008 at 1:05pm

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