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Renaming our cities-loosing international identity (Page 2)

raj5000 Moderator
raj5000
raj5000

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Posted: 13 December 2008 at 11:56pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by return_to_hades

I do not care what the international people think. For me I was born and brought up in Bombay. When the name was changed to Mumbai, whatever cultural or historical egoism that prompted the name change held no significance to me. To me Mumbai took something away from Bombay, something inexplicable that I cannot logically point my finger on. Except when I consciously attempt to be 'correct' I usually refer to places as Bombay, VT, Fountain, King's Circle etc. The name changes are absurd and irrelevant in my world.

I find name changing regressive. But then again perhaps I am part of the old graying generation that refuses change. Unless they come and hardwire my brains to think with new names they can change names all they like. I will stick to what I like. And if people feel that spending time, money and energy to officially change names is something really relevant that needs to be done...power to the people.
Me too Bombay, VT, Fountain, King's Circle etc willl remain as it is, yes for the heck of it I might refer them as changed names but originality still rocks in mind, can't help it ....sorry!! lols.. RTH since you mentioned  mention of King Circle reminded me of ride from King Circle to Bandra every day during junior college years.. :) btw I did my junior at National college....  nice to hear someone who know places around where I spent my childhood.
 
raj5000 Moderator
raj5000
raj5000

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Posts: 11737

Posted: 13 December 2008 at 11:59pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by sneha3105

Personally, i still call mumbai Bombay; Chennai Madras.

I think this re-naming is more of an ego thing and an inssue of pride showcasing the world we are independent and changing all our names and all. It doesnt seem to make more sense than that to me.
I felt the same way, but then I thought about adaptibility of these British names by people from rural areas, may be for them these new names were easy to adapt. ... not sure Confused
raj5000 Moderator
raj5000
raj5000

Joined: 01 January 2006
Posts: 11737

Posted: 14 December 2008 at 12:03am | IP Logged
Originally posted by SolidSnake

What is wrong in changing names? I am all for chaging names which were imposed by invaders. Not fair to compare US with India, they have hardly any history compared to us.
 
LOLLOL fortunately or unfortunate they are World leaders ... so does history matter ?? Confused temperament of people living in country sure does again Confused 
 
BTW - dude did u get hands on Gears of War 2..Ohh Mann..  GOW 1 and 2 are high on fav list now...  any suggestions on similar point and shoot games on x360? 


Edited by raj5000 - 14 December 2008 at 12:05am
karandel_2008 IF-Rockerz
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Posted: 14 December 2008 at 6:48am | IP Logged
Originally posted by raj5000

 
BTW - dude did u get hands on Gears of War 2..Ohh Mann..  GOW 1 and 2 are high on fav list now...  any suggestions on similar point and shoot games on x360? 


Try COD4 (better with multiplayer) or Far cry 2 (just above average). In addition you should try Fallout3, but its a shooter rpg and requires some hours of patience at start.

On topic: History and culture have lot of significance. Europe is proud of that, India is proud of that and US tries to preserve whatever historic building it has in the country.


Edited by karandel_2008 - 14 December 2008 at 7:29am
return_to_hades IF-Sizzlerz
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Posted: 14 December 2008 at 2:31pm | IP Logged
Speaking of proud of history. I think the colonial era is very much part of Indian history. We just cannot deny it did not happen. As much as we may dislike the atrocities of the British we cannot deny their legacy. They were pretty much a catalyst in forming modern India as we know today.

A gothic Victorian era building, made of dark stone and decorated with statues of gargoyles seems ridiculous when it is named after Shivaji.

PS: Raj...I went to Ruia for junior college and remember all the Udipi restaurants in King's Circle.
karandel_2008 IF-Rockerz
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Posted: 14 December 2008 at 6:19pm | IP Logged
Originally posted by return_to_hades

Speaking of proud of history. I think the colonial era is very much part of Indian history. We just cannot deny it did not happen. As much as we may dislike the atrocities of the British we cannot deny their legacy. They were pretty much a catalyst in forming modern India as we know today.



In my opinion, we should also not give undue credit to British. Its like belittling the sacrifices of our great freedom fighters. The current problems of India are also due to British: Poverty, India-Pak problems etc. We are poor because they took our money. Without them at least we would have been rich and once someone is rich then other problems are solved automatically. Not to mention that we, Indians, are inherently intelligent and would have done great things if we had money.

If someone says that whole India is united because of them then it may not be true (But do you really think that India is united that much?). In past, everywhere else the situation was like India. Different countries were divided into small kingdoms because that was the time of Kingdoms. Ultimately, all countries evolved and stabilized. No one forced them, for example in the case of Europe, and they took their own time and people got united under single countries. Problems of India may be partly attributed to the fact that things were forced on it.

In addition, if you look at current world then rich countries are mostly the ones who looted others and poor are the ones who got looted. Others, like US, got independence long ago and, once independent, they flourished.



Edited by karandel_2008 - 14 December 2008 at 6:24pm
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Posted: 14 December 2008 at 7:59pm | IP Logged
Being a history nerd, I probably could go to lengthy discussions and debates on kingdoms, independence, colonization and such....but I will focus on names.

I do not think by leaving the Anglicized names gives any undue credit to colonial rulers, at the same time nor does renaming them to Indianized versions take anything away from the history of a place.

For example even though today the City is Istanbul and we know it as the largest city in Turkey and a cultural seat of the Ottoman empire. From a historically perspective the modern factual history takes nothing away from Constantinople a classical representation of the glory of the Byzantine Empire. Here we see a completely different etymology for names. However, most inconsistencies in nomenclature are dimunitive.

Look up the map of Europe in Google Maps. Those unfamiliar with the Europe may even be confused by the names. What we call Spain, Germany, Sweden, Italy are correctly Espana, Deutschland, Sverige, Italia etc. We know them by their Anglisized names. Anglicized names are mostly dimunitives of the original names. Usually, because the original is difficult to spell or pronounce it is altared to the Anglo-Saxon phonetics. Locals use the correct spelling and pronuncialtion of these places, while the English speaking person uses the Anglicized names.

Except for a few, most Indian names are Anglicized dimunitives. For example Bombay was Bombay to English, Bumbai in Hindi and Mumbai in Marathi. Forcing everyone to refer to it as Mumbai is like Spain demanding that we stop calling their country Spain and use Espana instead. The name change is nothing cultural but grounded in an absurd sense of ego. It is not that Europeans are not proud of their culture and history, there is a difference between that pride and misplaced ego.

About renaming landmarks Gustave Eiffel was a famous German engineer. He built the Eiffel tower. It is due credit that a landmark built by a German be named after that German. During the WWII era when the French suffered under the Third Reich they did not choose to rename Eiffel because it was German.

Shivaji was not even alive when Victoria Terminus was built. Shivaji probably did not even know what a gargoyle was. I would place a bet that an emo kid is more goth than Shivaji ever could be. Clearly a landmark built by Victoria with gothic architecture that was popular in her time would make more sense to be named after her than a Maratha Emperor.

Similarly Flora Fountain was called so because of the Roman Goddess Flora in the center of the fountain. It was not even that Anglicized for crying out loud. The dimunitive was Fountain, referring to the fountain in the center of the area. How culturally neutral can you get calling a fountain-fountain. Would F have been better? You know have to call it Hutatma Chowk for a statue that is off center to the left that was erected in 1960 years after Flora's fountain in 1864. The fact that the name changed in 1960 and people in Bombay still call the place 'Fountain' is testament to the ridiculous nature of name change. For Christ's sake no one worships poor Flora anymore let her have her fountain. Thank God we do not have to call Fountain Pens, something like Chattrapati Shivaji Pen.

Speaking of the total ridiculous natue of name changes. Lets think of the whole (failed) American movement to rename French Fries to Freedom Fries, due to the anti-American stance of France specially after the Iraq war. It was a total mess of misplaced ego as well as history and etymology. Because French Fries are not French, they are Belgian...and best of all in France and some other places they are called Fritte Amerique, and most Europeans refer to them as American style chips/fries.

Speaking of names Alaska comes from Aleyaska (Russian) and Wisconsin is from Ouisconsin (French). And Oui is pronounced Wi, and Americans believe these places to be as American as can be. Sshhh no one tell them about Little Norway, New Berlin, New Glarus, Monticello, Verona, Ephraim, Cambridge or Brussels. They may have us change our towns to places that are more American.

While we are on names the 's' is silent in Illinois and Des Moines. There is no J sound in the Latin language. That hispanic boy is not Jesus. I mean he is Jesus but you say 'HeyZeus'. Baltic and Nordic tongues do not have a J sound too. Jessica, Johan and Julia from Sweden, Norway and Russia are Yessica, Yohan and Yulia.

But as Shakespeare said...whats in a name.
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Posted: 14 December 2008 at 9:49pm | IP Logged
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